Mr. John Reynolds (West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast,) "Snakeheads, People Smuggling"

Mr. John Reynolds (West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast,): Madam Speaker, the hon. member, who was just asking the question, points out the problem we have between east and west regarding "Snakeheads" where these stories are quite well known.

I have written the solicitor general and the head of the RCMP about the shortage of officers on the Sunshine Coast where they are supposed to have 52 officers for a population of 46,000. We are about 10 short, which is well above the 10% the commissioner sometimes talks about. Because of that, RCMP officers are sometimes quoted as saying that they cannot cover certain crimes overnight, like break-ins, because they do not have the staff. One officer was quoted as saying that they have been told by Ottawa not to go up to Pender Harbour from Sechelt to cover things at night, and yet there are a few thousand people who live there. We know it is a serious problem.

A comparison with that is West Vancouver which has 40,000 people, its own police force and 77 policemen on staff. It is an area bordered by water on two sides and a very compact area compared with the Sunshine Coast. We have a real shortage.

The member made a comment about the Fujian province. I agree with a lot of the things he said about that, but he also said that we only have one office in Beijing and at 18 cents an hour how can they afford to get there. That may or may not be true, but how can they afford to pay the $40,000 to the guys to get on the boat? It leads to the fact that organized crime is behind it.

I have been told by an overwhelming number people in the Chinese community in Vancouver that if we do not turn the boats around, or at least send the people back by airplane immediately, the people in that province will not get the message that human smuggling is not the way we do immigration in Canada.

There is a difference here to start with. Yes, they cannot afford it, but they can afford to raise $30,000 or $40,000 and/or pay it off in ware when they get here. How does the member rationalize that statement?

Mr. Pat Martin: Madam Speaker, I think the hon. member answered his own question. No one pays it up front. No one from that area has that kind of money. They sign a chit or whatever that they owe that money when they get here.

My brother is a lawyer in Toronto and has one of these people as a client. This person was chained to a bed in the basement of a home and forced to work 16 to 18 hour days in servitude, in bondage. This is bonded labour. This is a return to the bad old days of slavery. People are desperate enough to undertake the obligation of owing $40,000. If they do not pay it back, they are under great threat of coercion or of having damage done to their families back home. Many of them probably still have loved ones back in the Fujian province.

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This is the kind of coercion and manipulation that goes on in the minds of desperate people. Can anyone imagine how desperate people would have to be? The 18 cents an hour is not my figure. It was the International Labour Organization that just recently did the study of the free economic trade zones in the Fujian province where a lot of our products are made, such as children's toys, furniture and electronics. Maybe the clothes that I am wearing right now were stitched together in that particular area of China. There are 200 free economic trade zones in China now, many of them in the Fujian province, where western goods are made. I did not invent that figure. The International Labour Organization's estimate was that 85 cents an hour would be a reasonable living wage for a person in that area of China. They make 18 cents an hour. Beijing is a heck of a long way from the Fujian province. I do not know how they would even get there to file an application for a visa. I do not think it can be done. Legally, they cannot get here from there.