Small Dead Animals Blog/ Bombardier

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July 6, 2012

The Chinese And Bombardier: Dirty Work At The CSeries?

Another iconic Canadian company running short of time? Although I'd wager the general public abroad is not aware Bombardier is Canadian. Note final sentence, a speculation I've not seen before:

Bombardier Temporarily Reassigns Key CSeries Fuselage Work

 

 Bombardier Aerospace has temporarily reassigned responsibility for key components and work packages of its CSeries contracted to Chinese partner Shenyang Aircraft Corp. (SAC).

When Bombardier established the manufacturing system for its new 110- to 149-seat jet family, it allocated development and production of three fuselage sections—forward, center and rear—plus the empennage to SAC. It also charged the Chinese supplier with building the tail cone and wing-body fairing and center wing box.
But that work allocation has changed. Bombardier, at least temporarily, has taken fuselage assembly to Montreal, although the components are still being built in Shenyang. Industry sources also say that several of the work packages previously allocated to SAC have been temporarily transferred to Western suppliers...
While industry executives close to the CSeries are not saying the program is in jeopardy, it is clear that Bombardier has been forced to react to unexpected problems in airframe manufacturing...
Bombardier’s involvement with China has not only concerned finding cost-efficient and skilled suppliers. Like many other manufacturers, Bombardier sees China as a huge market.
...Bombardier has gone much further than any other commercial-aircraft integrator in its China exposure...Bombardier also is entering close collaboration with Chinese manufacturer Comac, which is developing its C919 narrowbody. The two companies aim to achieve a common cockpit design for the C919 and the CSeries and plan to cooperate in other areas. There have even been suggestions that China might look at buying Bombardier Aerospace outright, although that has not yet materialized [emphasis added].

Machiavellian thought from a friend: might the Chinese intentionally be causing Bombardier problems in order to make it potentially easier to take over?
Posted by Mark at July 6, 2012 1:43 PM

Comments

Regarding your last sentence, that only works if the company that's being bought out has no other options.
Posted by: Allan S at July 6, 2012 2:12 PM

I imagine by now that the Chinese hav enough tech spefications and drawings that they will soon produce their own version of the C series plane.
Posted by: Frankemm at July 6, 2012 2:30 PM

From the little I've seen of Chinese practices, the problems that are being encountered are less likely to be a Machiavellian scheme and more likely the product of a culture of "do it cheap and never admit or repair a mistake".
The idea of going out and buying a functional company because it does something you can't do (or are dysfunctional at) is an old one. It would be like the Chinese car company (that tried to get licensed to sell SUV's in Europe but failed the safety tests so badly that they wound up banned instead) buying Fiat or Lada or some other recognized name so that they could use the name (and possibly the improved techniques to be found at their international production an assembly plants) to sell their inferior wares.
Posted by: C_Miner at July 6, 2012 2:34 PM

Frankemm
Chinese are experts at copying technology....for about a century...
One problem persists however....much like the USSR which allegedly made the most accurate ICBM...was unable to produce a reliable toaster....
Chinese SKS seem well enough made but the copies of Honda small engines not so much.......
Posted by: sasquatch at July 6, 2012 2:47 PM

And possibly less expensive... Ah... Capitalists at heart !
Posted by: marc in calgary at July 6, 2012 3:06 PM

Sorry Bombardier, we thought you wanted lead short airframes on time, not a short lead time on airframes. Our bad.
DYSWIDT?
Posted by: Al the fish at July 6, 2012 3:30 PM

I'm sure Bombardier would LOVE to move all their manufacturing out of unionista Quebec. They just need to find a way to do it that lets them keep all their sweetheart deals with the Feds.
Posted by: The Phantom at July 6, 2012 5:03 PM

Maybe Don Draper can invent an ad campaign around Mo Strong planes or flights?
Posted by: andycanuck at July 6, 2012 5:42 PM

Does anyone really want to fly in plane made in China? Sure, after the planes drop out of the sky because of mysteriously substandard parts some middle manage will eat lead for the crime but that wouldn't help the victims much. No, I'll buy clothes or cheap electronics but I am wary of anything I really need being sourced in China.
Posted by: the rat at July 6, 2012 5:59 PM

No, the Chinese already have the design, they don't need Bombardier anymore. When will cor[orations wake up to the fact that CHina is a corrupt Communist country and theft is only a crime when it is a party member of high standing being thefted. Foreigners? Forget it!
China may ba an enormous market, but it is only a small part of the global market. I'd say, give up on China and concentrate on the rest of the globe. At least your competitor will not be stealing your product.
Posted by: Robert of Ottawa at July 6, 2012 7:07 PM

Chinese markets? Are we kidding? The only reason for a Chinese company to partner with a western one is to steal the technology.
Posted by: Scar at July 6, 2012 7:43 PM

Robert,
Having twice witnessed the plunder of proprietary knowledge/designs you are most likely correct and we will shortly see a Chinese "CSeries" aircraft.
Posted by: kgw at July 6, 2012 7:44 PM

Chinese markets? Are we kidding?:Scar. They are kidding but NA industrial management never seems to learn. Contracts/agreements with the west are meaningless to Asians. I can still remember memory chips and Nortel. That's why I guess I'll never be a high level CEO.
Posted by: gunney99 at July 6, 2012 8:15 PM

Robert
"""China may ba an enormous market, but it is only a small part of the global market"""

about 15% of the world population in one country???

you must be one of those math challenged lefties
Posted by: NME666 at July 6, 2012 8:56 PM

Note to self.
Do not get on Bombardier products in the future.
Posted by: Curious at July 6, 2012 9:05 PM

Bombardier? Quebec? China?
Outside of my tax dollars, I don't have a dog in that fight.
Posted by: Arty at July 6, 2012 9:25 PM

Bombardier has a firm grip on the federal taxpayers teat. My eyes won't tear up if we lose another leech.
Rechoice comrades.
Posted by: ∞² at July 6, 2012 9:26 PM

Compressed melamine wing roots not working out?
Posted by: BL@KBIRD at July 6, 2012 10:00 PM

Several years ago I was buying industrial PC hardware / electronics from a Taiwan company ... quality was excellent ... then the Taiwan company moved production to mainland China and there was an immediate and noticeable decrease in quality.
My guess is that Bombardier is having similar quality problems , but on a much larger scale , and probably cannot understand why nothing fits and why the guys in China cannot make the parts according to the drawings!
Posted by: Brian at July 6, 2012 10:43 PM

High technology projects usually have all kinds of problems like this when first started. Airbus had very similar problems with first shipments of sections for the prototypes from the various manufacturers across Europe. Boeing had all sorts of similar interface problems with various components from US manufacturers for the 787.
It's not unusual, especially for very high tech products.
Posted by: cgh at July 6, 2012 11:54 PM

Very true cgh, but seldom does the host company abandon a selected supplier. Looks like the problems can't be worked out in a reasonable time frame or price.
Posted by: gunney99 at July 7, 2012 1:42 AM

China's weakness is making it cheaper, not better. If there's a way to make a inferior product they will find it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8876656/US-weapons-full-of-fake-Chinese-parts.html
Posted by: peterj at July 7, 2012 3:01 AM

gunney99, but it does happen notwithstanding. OPG abandoned suppliers mid-project during the refurbishment of Pickering Unit 4 in 2002. Bruce Power did a smaller but still extensive re-shuffling of its suppliers and contractors during the refurbishment of Bruce 2 about five years ago. Areva has cut Siemens out of a lot of work during the construction of Olkiluoto 3 in Finland. In the latter case, they had to entirely rebuild part of the turbine hall after the Indian branch of Siemens omitted to include expansion joints in the building structure.
Posted by: cgh at July 7, 2012 7:52 AM

Has anybody informed Thomas Mulcair?
Surely, Bombardier must be moving production to China because of high oil prices.
Posted by: set you free at July 7, 2012 12:37 PM

This is only a speedbump in Harper's plan to integrate Canada into the Chinese economy.
Posted by: lberia at July 7, 2012 2:37 PM